- Deal With It

- Anchor

- Bitter End

- Awaken Demons

- Restraint

- Self Torture

- The Guilt Show

- Countdown Records

- Concrete Block

- The Secret

- At Half Mast

- Angelica Mariner

- Justice

- Run With The Hunted

- Ritual

- Killing The Dream

- L.e.a.r.n.

- Linha De Frente

- Outbreak

- Panic

- Death Is Not Glamorous VS Stolen Bikes Ride Faster

- Underdog

- Betrayed

- Doomriders

- Black Friday '29

- No Innocent Victim

- Dead Stop

- To Kill VS Slowmotion Apocalypse

- Justice

- Trial

- Another Breath

- Gonna Fall Hard VS Ed

- The Secret VS The Setup

- Good Clean Fun

- Converge

- Bones Brigade

- Donny Brook

- Strength Approach

- Purification

- The Difference VS The Miracle

- Terror

- Cataract

- Over My Dead Body

- Internal Affairs

- Inked In Blood

- Some Kind Of Hate

- New Found Glory

- Die!

- Agnostic Front

- Coalesce

- No Warning

- Shai Hulud

- Death Threat

- Champion

- Hatebreed

- Subzero

- The Promise

- The Beautiful Mistake

- Beloved

- Nodes Of Ranvier

- Comeback Kid

- Bleeding Through

- Sick Of It All

- Every Time I Die

- Give Up The Ghost

- The Dillinger Escape Plan

- Strike Anywhere

- The Hope Conspiracy

- Coheed & Cambria

- Thursday

- Stretch Arm Strong

- Himsa

Leo: Greg, how are things going? What have you been doing lately? I haven't heard news of you and Trial in a while. Tell me what happened in your world lately.

Greg: Hi, and thanks for the interview! I have been very busy for these last few years since the untimely breakup of Trial. I spent four years working with Los Angeles filmmaker Patrick Shen to make the feature documentary film "Flight From Death" and it has won seven Best Documentary and Best Feature awards at film festivals around the world. The film is narrated by Gabriel Byrne (The Usual Suspects, Assault on Precinct 13) and is about how subconscious anxiety about mortality affects our behaviors. There is more about the film as well as clips from the film at http://www.flightfromdeath.com. The film will be out on DVD on September 6th 2005. In addition to the film, I have been recording spoken word tracks with bands, like the title track on the new Parallax full length coming out this fall on Counterintelligence Records. More about Parallax can be found at http://www.goldenspikemusic.com. I also did some recording with Bridge to Solace from Budapest on their last record "Of Bitterness and Hope". Without boring your readers to tears, I will say that to read more about some of these things and about projects like my meetings with world leaders to discuss violence, and some political and social subjects you might not find elsewhere, you can look on http://www.wordsasweapons.com. Click the link to the World Leaders Project for more about the discussions about violence.


Leo: Looking back at the hc scene when Trial was around and comparing it with the current one, what are the differences you can observe? What has been lost and what has been gained, according to you? It seems to me that sense of social awareness almost completely disappeared. What do you think of that?

Greg: These days, people seem to wear more eyeliner. I wouldn't say that a sense of social awareness has been completely lost, because there are a number of bands singing about ideas and issues and doing it quite well, but I would agree that there is far less of that today than there was in the late 1990's. It is harder to sell ideas than it is to sell fashion, so fashion is is getting the advertising dollars and that's what everyone is buying. Bands like Die Young, Wait in Vain, This Time Tomorrow, Requiem, and Bridge to Solace are still talking about passionate ideas and ideological passion...but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Hardcore and punk was built on a foundation of ideas, and I expect that there will always be bands that stay true to that: to nurturing people's minds instead of their vanity.


Leo: What fed the the fire of the scene when Trial started? And more specifically, why was Trial formed? How did you guys get together?

Greg: When Trial started, there was a huge increase in the number of bands playing different types of old school hardcore, and somehow we got swept up into the "youth crew" revival side of that movement in the eyes of many people. While Trial certainly formed with bands of the late 80's in mind, I never saw us as being like bands like Ten Yard Fight, In My Eyes, Floorpunch, etc. We just weren't going after that kind of sound. After the release of our full length, when people would still classify us as "youth crew", I would have to laugh a bit. I love the hardcore music of the 80's and 90's, but I don't think that "Are These Our Lives?" sounds anything like youth crew music. When we started, we just wanted to play fast hardcore with heavy breakdown parts and have the lyrics cover potent ideas. We grew up listening to bands that inspired us lyrically and we wanted the energy of the music to match the energy and inspiration of the lyrics.


Leo: Trial is one of the genre defining hc bands of the mid 90's. Did you guys always have clear in mind what you wanted to play or time brought influences and sonorities you would have never initially thought about?

Gref: Wow....thanks for the compliment! Like any band, we developed over time. I would say that our demo was a hardcore recording, without allegiance to any particular type of sound. The first to EP's were more old school, meaning fast hardcore with breakdown parts. The full length took another turn, moving out of old school and into some quasi-metallic-political-not-sure-what-style-it-is hardcore. Does that make sense? I am not sure it does. Haha...the point is, we grew musically over the years we were together and developed a sound for ourselves that was much more intense and heavy than simply sticking to breakdowns in the middle of fast hardcore parts. We were really happy with how the full length turned out and still are to this day.


Leo: Your lyrics always embodied the sense of social awareness and spiritual and cultural struggles that, as I've formerly said, is not easy to be found within the vast majority of todays hc bands. What inspired you to write such coherent, engaged and meaning filled stuff? If you were to write them these days, do you think you would go for the same approach or for a more blindly brutal one?

Greg: More compliments. Thanks again! I think that if there was anything I would always want to be said about words I've written it would be that the words were coherent, engaged and filled with meaning. That is far better than the words being described as "confusing, disconnected, and meaningless" so I guess we did okay. I was inspired to write the lyrics the way I did because I wanted to challenge myself. It would have been easy to write songs about traditional hardcore topics, but aside from the fact that it has been done over and over again throughout the last 20 years, is the fact that we had already done it too. We wanted the full length to be really challenging. I remember telling a friend of mine that I wanted the lyrics to any one song on the album to be thoughtful and insightful enough that any college student could write a research paper on them. I didn't want them to just be simple and easy to forget. If I was to rewrite them today, I would write them the exact same way. There might be one or two tiny little things that I would change, but overall by far those lyrics mean as much to me today as they did the moment I recorded them.


Leo: Do you see any bands around whose approach, and even attitude, somehow reminds you of Trial's one? If so, please give us some names?

Greg: I like Die Young from Houston TX. They can be found online at www.dieyoung.com. Their record out recently on Immigrant Sun is really good. They speak about issues and ideas when they play live and are well read individuals. Of course, Requiem - the new band of Brian D from Catharsis - is also on target in terms of dealing with emotions and passions. hey can be found online on the Crimethinc site. Timm from Trial has a new band he is singing for called Wait in Vain and I like them a lot to.(http://myspace.com/waitinvain). Also, This Time Tomorrow, who are a new band from Seattle, have a demo out that is just great. They admit to being heavily Trial influenced, and it shows. The first song on their demo, a song called "Martyr", brings me to tears because the vocal delivery is so powerful.


Leo: I never exactly understood what was the reason you guys decided to call it a day. Could you please explain us that?

Greg: Like any band, Trial was the complex combination of different strong personalities. We just got to a point where we were disagreeing all the time on the direction of the band. It is hard to play together over years of time and have it work out. We reached a point where we couldn't continue. You know, having said that, that doesn't sound like a very exciting story. Maybe I should make up a better one. Here you go: Trial broke up because Timm joined the circus as a trapeze artist. It was his true passion in life. He wanted to wear a black spandex jumpsuit with flames on it and fly around the tent, 75 feet above the ground. He went on tour with the circus for three years and when he left, I decided to open a store in Brooklyn called "Pets Plus" that sold math books to cats. There you go. The truth. I like that story better.


Leo: Aside from Trial, I know you have always been involved in different activities. Besides the spoken word thing, I know you're involved in www.wordsasweapons.com Do you feel like explaining us what this project is all about?

Greg: When Trial broke up, I didn't want my connection with social and political issues to end. I decided to do a website, even though my web designing skills are on the same level as the average three year old. The site, wordsasweapons.com, was the result of that. There is information on there about many of the topics that we spoke about with the band, from Western Shoshone politics, to political prisoner ibn Kenyatta, to ideas about intensity and passion and conviction. I have original writing on there, links to other sites, band interviews, articles, and other information. Response has been good, though my layout and design still looks pretty horrifying. I need to update the design soon.

Leo: I know you are involved in movie- making either. Tell us something about that even, please. And also, why don't you come up with names of movies, even documentaries you think we need to check out?

Greg: My latest film is called "Flight From Death: The Quest For Immortality". It is a feature length documentary about how the fear of death impacts our tendency to be violent towards one another. My partner Patrick and I have spent four years making it,traveling as far as Egypt and South America to film, and interviewing some of the smartest people on the planet about their opinions concerning the ways that human behavior is affected by our fear of death. We have been working non stop recently with our distributor to prepare for the release of the film on DVD on September 6th. We will have copies for sale, in case people are interested, for both international and US DVD players, on our www.flightfromdeath.com website. As for movies I would recommend, I have a few top choices. I would say to definitely see "Requiem For A Dream", "Glengarry Glen Ross", "Apocalypse Now", "Narc", "The Manchurian Candidate" (the original 1960's version), "The Ice Storm" and "The Big Lebowski" for features, and "Spellbound", if you are into documentaries. All of those are really solid. I also like movies with ninjas in them. Lots of ninjas.


Leo: Time has spent (I don't know how old are you right now) but you're still sXe and still vegan. How do you fell with these 2 choices these days?

Greg: I am just as excited to be vegan sxe now as ever before, and probably more so since so many people in their 30's are giving up and going back to drinking, and being typical. I quit drinking on September 30th, 1988 and don't plan to start drinking again until I am 95. The phrase "true til death" is silly. I like "true til 95" much better. I figure that if I make it to 95, then I deserve to get completely drunk and high every day, so if anyone is interested in coming to the best party in the history of the world, I can tell you now that it will be at my house, wherever that is, in the winter of 2066. Get stoked. It is going to be awesome. I will have a lot of drinking to catch up on.


Leo: Going back to the Trial related talk: Those lyricals /orchestral interludes opening and ending the "Are these our Lives" album, definitely sound beautiful and suggestive. Why did you decide to use them, and where did you take them from?

Greg: I can't take credit for that idea. Timm came up with that. He thought that it would be cool to have an instrumental track that featured classical strings. He took the main guitar parts and reworked them for acoustic guitar, and then put them all together into one long piece of music. Then, I went out and found a string section and Timm and I worked with them to show them what we wanted. The cellist and violinist were amazing and in the studio, created on the spot much of what you hear on the record. Of course, having Blair Calibaba the recording genius from Vancouver BC there to help didn't hurt us much either. Our idea overall was to have people be able to listen to that string piece and get the same sense of the music as if they'd listened to the rest of the album. We were thinking that some people wouldn't want to listen to the hardcore parts and instead would want to read the lyrics while listening to a different interpretation of the music. This has been perfect for people who don't like hardcore, or who don't like Trial! Haha...really though...its been amazing to hear the responses to those parts over the years. Those parts really pull the album together quite well.

Leo: I'd like you tell us, to suggest us some bands worth the listen. Whether they're famous or not, still existing or not, hc or any other kind, spare us names of some fav bands of yours that you would strongly recommend us.

Greg: I spend about 80% of my time listening to Alkaline Trio these days. The 18% of my time is spent listening to Bridge to Solace, Earth Crisis, Freya, Immortal, Copeland, Mindsnare, Rise Against, and Seven Generations. Of course this changes every week, but for this week, the second week of August 2005, that is what I have on. I won't admit to you that the last 2% of my time is spent listening to Killswitch Engage, because you will probably make fun of me like all my other friends do. I will just keep that a secret. As for the bands I mentioned, I will explain them in order a bit. Alkaline Trio, for those who don't know them, just released an amazing album called "Crimson". I was fortunate enough to see them three times a couple weeks ago in southern California and they were amazing. Just a great band all around. Bridge to Solace is from Budapest Hungary, and they combine passion and hardcore perfectly. Their newest record "Kingdom of the Dead" is great, especially the first song including and after the intro. Everyone knows Earth Crisis, so I don't have to say much about them, but Freya, which was the followup band to Earth Crisis, is one that not as many people know. Their record got mixed reviews, but I am all for it. Karl's singing vocals combined with his screamed vocals, are really unique. Immortal's "Sons of Northern Darkness" is probably the best black metal album ever. How people can play that fast, and while wearing six inch long nails sticking out all over their body, is just beyond my mental capacity. As for Copeland, all I can say is wow. Amazing emo-type music. Their new record "In Motion" has some nearly perfect songs on it. Mindsnare is from Melbourne Australia. They are a great metal hardcore band who I never would have heard of without meeting Sarah DeBorre. Sarah is this DJ-metalhead-hardcore-supergirl from Melbourne who does a show called "Headwealth" every Friday night on PBS 106.7 FM out of Melbourne. Her show is available online and every hardcore/metal listener in the world should listen live which is what I try to do, or download the show and listen to it later which is just as good. Rise Against are world famous major label punk rockers who put on an amazing live show and whos songs are so catchy that it boggles the mind. Their new record is quite good. Finally, I listed Seven Generations who are a vegan sxe band from Orange County CA. These guys play with sincerity, intelligence and passion and they are definitely worth checking out. They have a split recording coming out with the band Gather sometime soon on New Eden Records.


Leo: You think you'll be involved in any other bands in a close future? Are you already working on any project? If so, how does that sound, what is it all about?

Greg: Last year I recorded a song with my new band Between Earth and Sky. Each of the band members has individual projects going on so as a collective we haven't been able to focus on the band as much as we would have liked. Sean (guitar) has recorded the new By A Thread record. Happy (bass/second guitar) has been writing for his second solo record. Blair (recording engineer and sound design) has been recording everyone from No Means No to Propagandhi. And I have been doing the film, and a hundred other things too. We hope to record an EP in the fall of 2005 or the winter.


Leo: So, what's the best thing about juggling? How would you introduce it to someone, such as myself, that never did that so far?

Greg: I would say that the best thing about juggling is playing with elemental forces that affect us all: like the force of gravity. I get to play with something that affects our every moment on this earth. I always feel this amazing sense of connection to being alive as a result of that. I am most calm when I am juggling. There is a sense of arranging chaos into order that makes me feel psychologically sound.


Leo: So, I know that you've lined up some reunion shows. One in Seattle, the other 2 in London and Budapest. How did you come up with the idea to do these 3 reunions? You feel you've never given an appropriate goodbye to all Trial estimators out there? And how come you picked up Seattle (well, I can see the reason for that being the city you guys hail from), London and Budapest? Do you know the exact dates already? What should everyone (including you) expect from those gigs?

Greg: Wow...that is a lot of questions all at once. Timm and I decided to do a Trial show after playing a surprise Trial song together at a hardcore show this past spring. We played with members of another band yet had so much fun with it that we decided to get Trial back together for a show. It was after that that every band in the history of hardcore decided to do reunions this summer. I don't want to be lumped in with all the other bands doing reunions. We are playing because, yes, we never got to play a last show for our friends in Seattle, and we're playing in Europe because so many kids from Europe wanted to see us and it saves everyone money to have us go there (since there is just five of us) rather than have two dozen or more people have to come here, each paying $800 or something crazy. London is the 18th of November and Budapest is the 19th of November. What should everyone expect from those shows? Good times. They are going to be intense and really fun.


Leo: Being one of them myself, I'd like you to spend some words for all the Trial estimators all over the world. Anything, any messages you would like to communicate us, you're welcome to do it here.

Greg: Thanks for the opportunity to say anything I want. Here are some things. First, thanks to anyone who has ever supported the band, written to us, done an interview, come to a show, or connected with our music or lyrics. It means the world to us. Second, zombie movies rule, especially George Romero's zombie movies. Third, if anyone has any questions about anything in this interview, feel free to be in touch anytime. You can find me through the www.wordsasweapons.com website. Thanks for the interview!

Leonardo